Cindy,
The above is just an opinion. There is another opinion on this topic, and living and woking in Westchester myself, I deal with this conversation every day.

Here's another opinion.......

Today, $300 is most likely much more than you will need for home care and that amount will surely be over 100% of the cost of any assisted living facility in Westchester county.

With a 3/6/50, with home care @ 100% if you don't use the full $300, you lose it. Unlike the 4/4/100, if you don't use all of the money, you don't lose it, it remains in your benefit account, to extend the benefit period.

As an example, with the 4/4/100, if covered for $300/day and you only use $150/day, the policy will last you 8 years.

In the same scenario with the 3/6/50, the policy will last you a maximum of only 6 years.

Yes, the 4/4/100 is a little more costly than the 3/6/50 with 100% home care, but there is more money available for your use and therefore, "in my opinion" it's a better policy.

Arthur Rudnick, LTCP, CLTC

What percentage of LTCi claims last 8 years?

Scott,
Nice try, but that's not the point.
How many hundreds of LTC policies have you sold over your career with a Lifetime Benefit Period?

What percentage of LTCi claims last a lifetime?

Arthur

Arthur,

With tongue in cheek, I must say, MOST of them do...some lives are just shorter than others. Very few people stop needing care and go back to leading normal lives. Sorry, couldn't let that one pass me by.

Bill,
Cute, but you know that's not what I meant.

Yes, a lifetime benefit could actually only be for 6 months of care if the policyholder dies after receiving care for 6 months so technically, you and your tongue and your cheek are correct.

But, in anticipation of Scott's post which I'm sure he's working on now, a lifetime benefit comes immediately after a 10-year benefit period. So, by selling a lifetime benefit period aren't you actually saying care will last more than 10 years?
Arthur

I know what you meant. Didn't I read somewhere once that only about 10-11 percent of claims go over 5 years? If that's true, then there's only about a 10 % chance anyone will ever need care over 5 years. I've probably sold more than 10% lifetime benefits in my career. Not sure what that means.

What that means is that 10-15 years ago the cost of a lifetime benefit cost about what a 3-year benefit costs today. Probably less because 15 years ago, I was selling $150/day and today, it's $300. And, 15 years ago, the words "rate increases" had not yet been invented

I think the figure I recall is that 20% of those in a facility will last a minimum of 5 years.

There's really no way to determine the average stay for care at home. I'd guess that 80% of those receiving care at home do not have LTCi and most care is being provided by family. Those numbers never hit the public statistics.

Art,

I do remember a statistic from Genworth claims history, based on their 30 plus years of LTCI claims. They state that 75% of all their claims start with home care, and 66% end with the claimant still on home care. I think that makes a huge statement about how inaccurate relying on facility care statistics can be.

The point is that statistics in a facility are reliable. Average stays can be verified very easily. Even without LTCi, a nursing home can report average length of stays. But home care is diiferent.

Genworth and other carriers are looking at their claims history. But if grandma, without a policy needs help and a spouse or child provides unpaid, informal care for 6 years, where does that show up in anyone's statistics?

And, that's where this conversation started, "how many people require home care for 8 years?"
(Whatever happened to that guy who posed the question in the first place?)

well, I have to say, I am now sufficiently confused and totally unsure of which policy to buy! You have given me alot to consider, and as a layman, all I can say is that I have gotten as many different opinions as people I've asked. I guess we will have to go with our gut. But can I ask one more question- why is Genworth so much less expensive than John Hancock and also, I worry about the elimination period. We could blow through many thousands before benefits kick in, my husband thinks 30 days is too expensive and th at the calendar year elim period is prohibitive in price. thoughts?

Sorry if you think I vanished, I am here, trying to sort things out before we buy. But does everyone agree we should definitely do the partnership program v the non partnership? Truthfully, I dont think we would ever go into a medicaid facility, hopefully my kids would feel sorry for us and keep us out of a nursing home! The broker said even if we dont use the medicaid part of the plan its still a better deal to buy the partnership.

With most purchases, we reverse that question.

Normally, we ask ourselves, "Why is X so much more expensive than Y?"

What many consumers (and even many insurance agents) don't realize is that insurance companies are like any other competing corporations: they all have different overhead expenses, different marketing expenses, various profit margin requirements, varying degrees of internal rates of return, as well a host of variable expenses--none of which is exactly the same from one insurance company to the next. This is part of the reason there is a significant disparity in pricing for long-term care insurance policies. My job is to help my clients exploit those disparities and NOT throw money away on an overpriced policy.

Therefore, I think the question should be phrased like this: Why is X so much more expensive than Y?

In regards to the Elimination Period, some policies offer a zero-day Elimination Period for care at home. With these policies, the Elimination Period is waived for care at home. Some policies include this feature automatically. Other policies make this available for an extra premium.

There are at least 4 other reasons why a 90-day Elimination Period usually makes the most sense.

Scott A. Olson

So, ok, I think I get it. It seems like the 90 elim is perfectly fine and from what i read on this board, it seems for the small addl cost of the 4/4/100 per year, that maybe we should just do that. Also, i was just given another tidbit of information this a.m. that I hadn't considered, was that Genworth pays for unskilled home care as well. Is that true? This might be a question for my broker. Oy, I am very confused.... Thank you all so much in making this process so impossible. (kidding!).

can't thank you all enough, really. this forum is wonderful. i know i am redundant- Arthur, you may be hearing from me! I know, I think i have tmi - can't really sort this out. Just seems like everyone has a different take. Ask 10 people get 10 different opinions. The reality is of course I am hoping we never need to use this - my parents are 88 and ride bicycles everyday, live on their own, and need no assistance. So....who knows, really. Appreciate all the input, truly!

Cindy,
It's really not that complicated if explained properly.

Arthur